how much should i know/have read going into a urology AI/sub-I

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robosurgeon
how much should i know/have read going into a urology AI/sub-I

hi,the title pretty much states it all. i have heard from various people that most places do not expect you to know much about urology even as a fourth year doing a subi/AI. even with that being the case, i am usually not too comfortable in a setting where i don't really know what is going on. my plan was to at least to have read smith's general urology once and try to really have a grasp over some of the more concise handbooks out there. it seems pretty low yield though considering that the books are so broad and cover every aspect of urology where i will most likely only be seeing a fraction of it on my AI/sub I. so, in summary, should i spend the spring semester of my third year mastering smith's urology and some other references in preparation for my subi/AI?thanks!

Edited by: Admin on 05/11/2015 - 19:50 Reason: Updated by FeedsNodeProcessor
Robotic dock
Various resourses

I would say those two books are great. However, Anatomy and physiology are still fundumental elements. So, beforehand, it would be highly recommended to look at 3d atlases.

Anonymous (not verified)
Sub I Knowledge

The answer is yes.No one expects you to know all the answers to their questions. But if you have knowledge, you will shine like a star.It does not hurt to read diagnosis, prognosis, and know about surgical approaches. ANATOMY is key. Anatomy forms the basis of kick ass pimp questions, especially in the OR. Considering so many cases are lap or robotic these days, you will  have no excuse like those of the past when you were 3rd assist and couldn't see the field or feel your arm after retracting for 30 minutes and the attending points to some tiny vessel and asks you what are the branches.Whoever told you not to worry about knowing anything and that Sub I's don't expect you to know anything needs a reality check. For you, the 2 best books you could get are 1. Smith's Urology - Basic overview that is perfect for Med Students. The 2nd is Pocket Guide to Urology 4th edition by Jeff Weider. It is a very condensed handbook that has a wealth of info on pretty much everything in Urology except pediatrics.  Campbell's is way too overwhelming. But, it is a fantastic resource for reading up on cases or presentations the night before. 

robosurgeon
perfect, just what i needed

perfect, just what i needed to hear. thank you

ToTheLeft
ditto

Anonymous User wrote:
Whoever told you not to worry about knowing anything and that Sub I's don't expect you to know anything needs a reality check. For you, the 2 best books you could get are 1. Smith's Urology - Basic overview that is perfect for Med Students. The 2nd is Pocket Guide to Urology 4th edition by Jeff Weider. It is a very condensed handbook that has a wealth of info on pretty much everything in Urology except pediatrics.  Campbell's is way too overwhelming. But, it is a fantastic resource for reading up on cases or presentations the night before. 
 I agree completely.  Those are the same 2 books I would have named myself.  You can read either/or, and if you know some evidence-based urology you will really shine.  First though, just get a handle on basics like anatomy, names of things, how to read a GU film/CT scan, etc.

Anonymous (not verified)
I agree on both Smith's and

I agree on both Smith's and Pocket guide.  Smith's is probably easier to obtain than Pocket guide.  The only other advice I have is how you plan to use the books.  Unless you have a photographic memory or really get super excited by the epidemiology or receptor pathways of prostate cancer, you probably won't get much from just reading through Smith's by itself.  I found I got the most out of Smith's by trying to have a good skim before my sub-I followed by reading the appropriate chapter before cases or clinics with a specialist in the field.  Really, you probably already knew this. I also liked the Cleveland Clinic Surgical Atlas which you can get through your campus library online. Finally, there is really no substitute for knowing about the patient.Enjoy your rotation. 

robosurgeon
any recommendations for 3d

any recommendations for 3d atlases? i'm still having trouble finding a good anatomy source that actually details GU anatomy. i'm using cambell walsh for that but its not great for anatomy...thanks

Anonymous (not verified)
-

I did 3 uro rotations. I knew nothing about urology going into it. I knew very little after all 3. You are wasting your time reading in-depth urology text books. You will not retain anything, you will be flooded with information. Read about the conditions your patients have; no broad anatomy of the pelvis, though most residents and attendings recognize that pelvic anatomy is glossed over in med school, and don't really expect much.The absolute most important thing, in my opinion, is not to be arrogant or annoying during your rotation. This cannot be overstated. The dbag who answers every question correctly and corrects residents does a lot worse in terms of evaluations than the dude who gets most questions wrong but is pleasant to hang out with.

Anonymous (not verified)
Another opinion

Anonymous User wrote:
The absolute most important thing, in my opinion, is not to be arrogant or annoying during your rotation. This cannot be overstated. The dbag who answers every question correctly and corrects residents does a lot worse in terms of evaluations than the dude who gets most questions wrong but is pleasant to hang out with.
No doubt that is true, BUT. . . the student who generally answers questions correctly while being modest, nice to be around, hardworking, and not upstaging or correcting residents does even better. It's true, you don't need to read Smith's for your sub-I, but it will help you get way more out of the rotation. And, really, when are you going to read that book (or the equivalent)? It's a solid foundation, and if you think you're going to read it during you intern year, you're not. By your R2 year, you'll be working to get through Campbell's and wishing you had a little better foundation to build on.

Anonymous (not verified)
Both the last two posts are

Both the last two posts are really on target.  It's always nice to get as much of a foundation as possible.  Another thing to keep in mind is that you really should try to be yourself, but the best self you can be. Everyone is aware that you are in a difficult position.  You are trying to impress, yet also trying to learn and experience.  You are in a uniquely vulnerable situation.  The only way to manage that position is to put in effort in intellectual preparation (which is why you asked about the books) but also to recognize your personal weaknesses and strengths.Sometimes you'll find yourself in a place where everyone is pimping you on difficult anatomy and giving no positive feedback.  Perhaps you thrive on that, perhaps you find it rude.  Alternatively, you may find yourself in a place where no one challenges you (I was once on a surgery rotation where I was pimped on the abdominal aorta...I was a tad bit offended).  In these situations recognize where you feel comfortable.  Certain parts of your sub-i will pass (you will become a more welcome and stable member of the team after you match to a program), but certain parts won't (if they yell at the residents, they will yell at you when you are in a program). Finally, as you go into the sub-i, recognize that while you may be deprived of sleep and stressed, your residents and chiefs are probably twice as deprived and have been at it for months or years longer.  Your attendings have their livelihoods on the line with every major surgery, research publication, or clinic day.  Your patients are sick, tired, in pain, and most likely confronting life altering situations.  Try to give them the benefit of the doubt if they should do things that you find annoying or weird or mean.  

Anonymous (not verified)
You should kow the basics. 

You should kow the basics.  Not knowing simple anatomy, what is PSA, differential of an enhancing renal mass, basics of kidney stone treatment, etc will not inspire a lot of confidence in those evaluating you. Having said that, it is probably more important that you prepare for cases by reading ahead of time, admit when you don't kow an aswer, but look it up and get back to whoever is grilling you, show up on time, stay until the end, help out with the residents and ask insightful questions.  I think reading Smith's is a good start for your sub-I and for your residency.  Hold off on Campbell's until you have a specific case you are reading up for.The best advice would be to listen to the residents when you arrive.  Most of the time they want to help you shine and will give you insight into what is expected.  If they don't, simply ask them what is expected of you and how you can be helpful while you are there.Good Luck

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