Consensus on Step 1 score cutoff for sending Step 2

I got a 239 on step 1 and not a single program has asked me or wanted my CK results (of which i have yet to take) during interviews.

Agree

I think you're probably right with that range, but having said that its like anything with your application. If your app is strong in a lot of areas, including step 1, most people won't ask about step 2. On the other hand, if your app is on the weaker side, even with board scores in the 240s you may get asked when step 2 scores are coming in. Either way, I don't think there's any hard and fast rule

Our student affairs dept said more and more schools and not granting interviews to students that did well on step 1 and have not taken step 2, even if it is not a requirement (like for UCSF). They told our entire class to take it by Sept for that. Have any of you heard of schools that don't actually require a score for the application not giving interviews based on this? It seems a little ridiculous to me that they would not interview a student with >245 on step 1 because they are worried about a step 2 score.

I asked one of the higher ups at my school whether to take step 2 early and they said that if you aren't doing well, or just doing average on the shelf exam, that you should take it later because it will hurt. Can anyone attest to that or are the shelf exams during clinical rotations not a good representative? Any people do well on step 2 after getting an average score on the shelf exams?

I am curious if I take Step II in August, and score less than Step I, can I just not update my application until after the match? How does score reporting work?

I'm also interested in this answer since it is just around 4th year scheduling time and need to schedule step 2 study time accordingly.

Can any other people give input on what the cutoff/ranges for step 1 are so that you can take step 2 later (like, October or later)? Or ranges of step 1 where you should try to take step 2 early?

I did completely average on any given shelf, and some pretty poorly. I had a good step 1 score so, I just put off step 2 for as long as I could. Studied a couple of weeks for Step 2 and got a 247.

Rocked out all my shelfs save one to get honors. Scoring in high eighties or nineties. Had strong step one. Took step two deep in december and got a 206. Can I hear u say fresh??

I've never heard of a denying interviews for no step II score. You're student affairs department may have just punk'd you.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread. First, if you receive a score report before submitting your ERAS application you will have to release both your Step 1 and 2 score at the same time. If you receive your score after your ERAS submission you can release your step 1 and hold your step 2 score, and release it whenever you want. In summary don’t take step 2 before August.

Second, remember you are applying to residency programs and not “schools”. Each program determines what they want their applicants to have completed prior to offering interviews. When you are told that schools are refusing to interview or rank applicants without a step 2, this is directed at regular match applicants. Early match combined with away rotations makes taking step 2 and doing well difficult, and most programs do not even think about it. That said each year more applicants are incorrectly told they have to have Step 2 scores, a minuscule number of programs start requiring scores, and all of a sudden it is a requirement at all programs. Look at the websites of programs you plan to apply to and see if it is a recommendation or a requirement to have a Step 2 score.

Third, remember when looking at Step 2CK scores that the average is much higher 230s and schools are aware of this fact (they see your score, the average, and the SD). So…don’t be impressed until you see a score in the upper 250s if you are looking to nullify a bad Step 1 score.

Fourth, many of the top programs, or at least programs that think they are tops, frequently set a cut-off for offering interviews at the 90th percentile (1.29 SD above the mean). Please don’t scream about this, I said many, not all. If it is not an absolute cut-off, it is frequently used as a “best out of 3 or 4 criteria.” The best way to get around a borderline score is to game the system with the other criteria like publications, a well connected letter writer, an away rotation, AOA, or adjusting the proportion of upper, middle, and lower tier programs to reflect your score. Other strategies I came across last year were offering interviews to the top 40 Step 1 scores that applied to a program.

Finally, to give my opinion on the initial question, it depends on what type of programs you are most interested in and what the rest of your application looks like. I would say you should probably have a score that is at least 1 SD above the mean in order to not take Step 2 prior to match. I would also have a backup plan with some time set aside in November if you choose not to take it.

"Fourth, many of the top programs, or at least programs that think they are tops, frequently set a cut-off for offering interviews at the 90th percentile (1.29 SD above the mean). Please don’t scream about this, I said many, not all."

Are you saying that many programs use 1.29 SD above the mean, which equates to a step 1 of 250 if you took the test in 2009 (222 is avg, 22 is SD) and are going into your 4th year next year, as a cut off? This doesn't sound right because the average applicant does not have a 250 board score. Do you mean many of the top programs, like top 20?

Really? By definition 1.29 SD above the mean is not the average applicant, and this is not the average specialty as far as competitiveness. If you look at your quotation it says “many of the TOP programs” so yes I was talking about the top programs.

A top program is tough to define, but I would argue any program that can make a legitimate claim to be in the top 5 makes the criteria. This probably constitutes 10-15 programs.

A high cutoff makes sense if you are trying to limit the number of interviews offered at programs that receive high numbers of highly competitive applicants. Urology is a very competitive specialty with very few positions compared to many other specialties. Many programs set minimum scores in the 220-230 range. Although I am unaware of any published average Step 1 score for Urology applicants or those matched, the number that has been kicked around for years is 235. As a number a 250 sounds high, but the average Step 1 score has increased by 2-5 each year for the past several years. To put it another way 250+ scores are much more common now. The goal score for the 2010 match cycle was around a 245 depending upon what time of year you took Step 1.

Below is a quote from NYU’s website (not generally considered a top 10 program although still very good). If you read between the lines they are looking for a 90th percentile. Again remember it is usually one of several criteria used to offer an interview.
“What are the minimum required scores for USMLE step 1 & 2?
We do not have a minimum USMLE score requirement. Students should have passed Step 1 of their board exams and will complete Step 2 after being accepted into a residency program. Nationwide, students who are accepted into urology programs typically score above the 90th percentile on board examinations.”

"Third, remember when looking at Step 2CK scores that the average is much higher 230s and schools are aware of this fact (they see your score, the average, and the SD). So…don’t be impressed until you see a score in the upper 250s if you are looking to nullify a bad Step 1 score. "

Uh...not really, the average Step 2CK score when I took it in summer 2009 was 226 (checked my score report).

September 2009 - Step 2CK mean 229 SD 23.

MIGHT be true in other specialties. Maybe.

Never heard of anything like that in uro.

Most places find step 1 scores in the 230s just fine. I also agree with the advice someone gave to just take step 2 after august so you can release your step 2 score (or not) once you see what it is.

I also feel like I should remind everyone that although programs will ask you what percentile your step scores were (meaning your 2 digit score), the 2 digit score that goes up to 99 on your score report is not in fact your percentile.

It's really a tough call when you're in that 235ish range.

I got a 238 on step 1, and 2 out of 21 programs asked if I had taken step 2 yet (one on interview day, another via email just prior to interview day to "complete my file"). The rest of my application was pretty well-balanced, so I relied on that and decided to hold off on step 2 until January. For me, getting the ball rolling and starting July off with a rotation was more important than rocking step 2.

I ended up matching at my #1 and getting a 264 on step 2. Who knows how things would've turned out had I taken step 2 early...

I just wan to confirm when would be a good time to take step 2. I also am in the upper 230s range and would like to take step 2 early. But again if I do worse on it and have to report it I would be screwed. What exactly are the dates when you can take the test and have the option of releasing them or not depending on the score. And please explain your reasoning. Thanks

got a step 1 <235, but had overall a strong app (letters, honors in all clerkships AOA, research, etc...). Got 22 interview offers and no one brought up my score. I matched at my #1 choice. I would say a strong step 2 score will never ever make up for lacking that "overall feel", why bother with an applicant with a low 230, high 250-260 score, but had no research, few honors, no leadership, no extracurricular. Just my 2 cents

Good luck with the Match

I've decided to put Step 2 off as well...until after my first 3 rotations of 4th year which will all be Uro.  So I'll take it in October, meaning the score will be there for interview time, but won't be there for the application deadline.  This is the only good way I've found to balance things, as I didn't want to rush Step 2 in my 2 week break this June.

Wouldn't the best of both worlds be if you took Step 2 after the 3rd week of August but before the 2nd week of october (since it takes ~3 weeks to get scores back)?  That way, you can show it to them in time for the interview (if they start first week of november) but hold it until after you submit your app (september 1st)?  Or are you guys saying that they are actually going to pick who to interview based on step 2 scores (seems a little odd)?

What is the last possible day to take the exam and still have it count for something if you do well on it?  I was estimating 2nd week of october to give it 3 weeks before it comes back in 1st week of november right when interviews start or do some people think you can go later than that?

Interviews start mid-October...if you really wanted your score available for all your interviews, you'd have to take it around the 3rd week of Sept I guess. I think the debate about taking Step 2 early depends on your reason - if you have a Step 1 score <230 like me, I hope having a decent Step 2 score in my app WILL increase my # of interviews (maybe not everywhere but I think some places probably look at it).  If you're >230 I doubt it matters for getting interviews.